Class types strengths and weaknesses

[Tim]

Ok. So I've started planning for v2. As I've mentioned before, I am currently planning on reintroducing character classes. The trick here is that all classes need strengths and weaknesses. So help me brainstorm what types would be good at what kind of thing. Also what skills might they be good at. Some are easy (channelers can channel! Aiel can't use swords!), but others are more difficult.

Below is a list of possible class types. Since I don't have the classes set in stone that I'm gonna add, you get a smorgusborg to work with. Don't feel like you have to address each one, but feel free to discuss them all:

• Aiel
  
• Wise Ones
  
• Ogier
  
• Whitecloak
  
• Warder
  
• Channelers (male and female could be different)
  
• Wolfbrother
  
• Tracker (someone who's good in the wilderness)
  
• Trolloc
  
• Myrdraal
  
• Greyman
  

Feel free to add your own in too!

[kaldar]

that is quite the ambitious list Tim

Well let's see .....

Wise ones - OP damage but probably more defense than channelers and less OP damg. maybe a bit of critical to balance it out.

Ogier - specialize in critical because of their strength. High defense and damage but lower agility and no taint.

Warder - Melee fighter specialists with high agility and decent defense. Some critical. Best overall melee fighters. No taint.

Myrdraal - I would see this as the tainted version of the warder.

I think that should get the ball rolling

[Hugh Longshanks]

Greyman - Should be able to always hit first when attacking (regardless of agility factors) possibly have an Unblockable skill (like a tali of Stealth)

Whitecloak - high OP defense (since they are kind of the antithesis to Channelers). Maybe some extra defense....

Wolfbrothers - high facility for bows. Night vision and extremely keen senses would make them perfect scouts and snipers

Aiel - high agility + greater strength in Spear fighting. Possibly a skill that uses no weapons at all?

Warders - I like Kaldar's idea, although I feel they should have some extra health-gain (or possibly just higher health overall?) because of the Warder bond.

Trollocs - extremely high damage and good defense, but slow. Basically, they're tanks.

A couple of other points: I feel that Warder's should have some actual connection to Aes Sedai. Say, instead of making a Warder class, have a general melee fighter class, and then give them the option of being bonded by a Channeler (this ought to work for both male and female melee characters - they just can only be bonded by the opposite sex). Being bonded would cause one to gain certain skills unavailable to anyone else but carry some kind of obligation to your Aes Sedai (I'm not sure what)....

[flyingfang]

why only opposite gender?

any ways.
what if the Sedai gets some sort of bonus in a fight if their warder is in the same town? like....
they can cause extra damage...
*shrugs*
and warders would get... like extra hp? or gain hp.

[kushiel]

Aug 27, 2008 16:23:02 GMT -6 flyingfang said:

why only opposite gender?.

I was gonna ask this as well

Would channelers be able to jump further distances around the map

And could myrddraal be able to move a limitless amount (thats if you add something like stamina mind)

[Hugh Longshanks]

An idea about Traveling for Channelers and Shadowwalking for Myrddraal: Channelers can jump to any town on the map, provided they travel from their source town, or else a town their Clan controls. Myrddraal would be backward - they can travel FROM any town on the map to their source town, or a town under their Clan's control.

As to Warders and Aes Sedai: In the books, their are detrimental effects when an Aes Sedai bonds a woman, and i am sure the same would be true of an Asha'man bonding a man. What if this: when an aes Sedai and her Warder are in the same location, the Warder gets extra health when he is attacked, and the Aes Sedai gets extra agility (since presumably her Warder would warn her of impending danger)....

[Mat Cauthon]

I am liking this but are there going to be just plain people......

[Tim]

There will probably be a class or two for more 'plain' characters. Didn't put them on the list as they likely will be average all around, not having many strengths or weaknesses.

Secon, I can't tell you for certain what changes are coming to stats in v2 as I don't know yet either. Lots of ideas, but no clue on what will actually get put in yet. If you have an idea for something, go ahead and throw it out there.

EDIT: And even I'm not exact on what the hit percentage for taint is off the top of my head. I'll look it up for you later.

[Hugh Longshanks]

How about this, guys?

Instead of starting out with classes (Warder, Aes Sedai, etc) you start out by choosing a region of origin. Each region would have certain strengths or weaknesses, but they wouldn't lock you into any particular path.....For example, you could start out as a Borderlander, who would have a bonus against the Shadow and a weakness against the Light. This does not mean he's locked into this persona, however. At some point, he could become a Darkfriend (removing his bonus against the Shadow and giving him a bigger bonus against neutrals, while increasing his weakness to the Light), or conversely, becoming a Warder (which would bump up his prowess against the Shadow, effectively turbocharging his original skills).

Basically, in this plan I would see us as having about 10 basic classes. Each would have a random starting place, but keeping to a particular region, so that a Borderlander would always start in either Maradon, Tar Valon, or Bandar Eban.

So, I'm figuring the classes would be these:
Borderlander (North - Maradon, Tar Valon, Thakan'Dar)
Myrddraal (North - Thakan'dar, Maradon, Aiel Waste)
Trolloc (North - same as Myrddraal)
Ogier (SouthEast - Stedding Shangtai, Tear, and Aiel Waste))
Southerner (South - Tear, Illian, and Ebou Dar)
Easterner (Cairhien, Tear, and Tar Valon)
Aiel (East - Aiel Waste, Thakan'dar, and Stedding Shangtai)
Andoran (Central - Caemlyn, Two Rivers, Far Madding)
Southwesterner (Amador, Ebou Dar, and Tarabon)
Westerner (Tanchico, Falme,and Maradon)

Granted, I realize this kind of does away with a Channeler class, but it could be a later addition, in the same way as the other specialized classes (perhaps around level 10, you have the opportunity to pursue Channeling - possibly requiring a quest to be completed)....

Just an idea, and kind of off-topic, but Con's idea made me think of it.

EDIT:
Modified the classes to something that made sense.

[Tim]

*Begin off-topic jaunt*
Ok. Here's my thoughts on evolving character classes. I like the customization it allows, but I do think there needs to be some structure to it. I don't like the idea of everyone starting out and having endless options no matter what they choose for themselves, because I believe that it allows for people to become too strong. We'd end up with a bunch of channeling wolfbrother blademasters Warders of Aiel decent or some such, which it just too much. Yeah, there are things that could be done to somewhat prevent that (such as each skill costing x amount of skill points), but only to a point.

I'd not saying that I'd want to lock you into a certain path though. My original thought (wasn't going to get into this until I had fleshed it out further, but oh well) was that there would be starting classes (ie. Soldier, Untrained channeler, Trolloc, etc) and as you progress, there are different specialization classes you can choose from (Warder/Whitecloak, Aes Sedai/Asha'man/Wilder, Myrdraal/Grayman *I know this one doesn't make as much sense*, etc). That way there are choices to be made as to which path you go down. I'm also thinking now of incorporating Con's idea of X number of skills that are available to be learned/bought from places, but incorporating it so that only certain groups can learn certain skills (ie All but Aiel can learn sword skills, only Untrained Channelers, Wilders, Aes Sedai, Asha'men, and Wise Ones can learn OP skills, etc). This would take a fair amount of work to be done, but once the system is in place it would be easy to maintain.

I agree that this doesn't allow for you to make drastic changes to your character down the line, but really if you want to make drastic changes (ie. switch from a melee expert to a ranged one) you're much better off just starting a new character. Yeah, you likely won't find your new guy on any top ten lists (at least the ones that are currently out there ), but in the past there have always been a variety of players at different levels of development. And with the clan system being what it is, it would likely be beneficial for a clan to also have players at various levels in order to widen the number of targets they can attack in order to more quickly raise their win total (meaning if their all level 30 and there's only 5 non clan members that 25 or above, it could be a pain to get your wins up, especially if there's a couple dozen level 15's all battling each other and getting their wins up quickly).

Hugh, I like the idea of player nationality too. It sorta corresponds to race in other rpgs. I'd like to add it in too eventually, but was planning on saving that as something for later. I don't want to try to add 'race' and 'class' at the same time, as each will be enough of a balancing issue on their own, and decided that classes tie in with skills better so there for it would be most beneficial first.

*End of Off topic rant.*

[Hugh Longshanks]

Hmmmm....

I'd have to say your idea sounds better than mine (it never occurred to me to have two variables in character creation). Basically, I'm thinking with that kind of system you'd have two choices (as you said) - class and nationality. Class effects what you can do (namely, are you going to be a soldier, a Channeller, etc.) and nationality affects HOW you do it (if you're an Aiel soldier, you won't be using swords, but a spear will be perfect for you; a Two Rivers man is almost guaranteed to be an archer) .....

and, yes, it would be a nightmare to add all these things together. So, right now, it's probably best to stick to the classes rather than the nationalities, since they are more specific and have more of an effect on gameplay.

[kaldar]

I've always kinda liked the idea of customizable ability scores that a person could add to as they lvl up. Somthing like

Melee Attack :
Ranged Attack :
Melee Defense :
Ranged Defense :
Agility :
Critical :
Hit Points :

and each level you get to add a certain amount of points wherever you want.

In addation to this the skills you acquire could add to these base totals.

[Tim]

The problem with going off topic is then I can never find the actual suggestions when I go to figure out if/how I want to implement them. Same with topics in the suggestion board that aren't very descriptive of what's inside. Just so ya know.

The problem I see with your system is that there doesn't appear to be any control. What's stopping me from having 2 strong channeling skills, 2 blademaster-level sword skills, 2 wolfbrother skills, 2 high defense skills, and 2 high taint skills? Hell, what call that person's class? You also mentioned originally being able to replace skills with different ones if you change your mind later, which I see as problematic. What happens when your level 40 Warder decides he should have been a channeler, so starts swapping in channeling skills for his low level Warder skills, until he also has higher level Channeler skills? Then does the same with another path.

I like your idea, Con. Like I said in the last post, I stole the 10 skill slot type idea from you. But there has to be some control. Once you start down a path, I don't think you should be able to back track much. And if you can backtrack, there must be a limit. Or else everyone will have God-like characters that will only make the game unrealistic (realistic in a WoT setting, that is )