Translating Wealth into Power

[Jenlyn]

I love the new occupations (VAST improvement over "Use which tool?"), and I am enjoying the challenge of gathering enough gold to buy more and better ships, plant more and better crops, etc. However, even with the addition of repair costs (another improvement, and better than the one that Craig implemented in The Breaking), there is still little point to accumulating gold beyond making more gold. I believe that at some point, having all that wealth should translate into power of some sort.

This was discussed in Silver Legion chat, but we were unable to think of a way to translate great wealth into modest power without unbalancing the game somehow. The best suggestion was to build expensive estates at some point, estates that might offer some small benefit, like +.5 turn regeneration while the character remains at their estate. To make it more interesting, perhaps estates could be robbed by other players, in lieu of a duel?

I dunno...this idea did not get very far, but maybe if others find it worthy, they can brainstorm on the idea, and as a group, we could come up with something cool.

[King Richard]

As far as my idea on the estates go, I think they should only be purchased in the Wildernesses, kind of like sub towns owned by individuals, instead of clans. That way, clan-less or those in smaller clans can still control portions of the world. But I also think there should be a limited number of them.

These should be really expensive, and you should be charged an hourly tax from your own bank to keep them. Each wilderness should be linked to one town, and the tax would go to the ruler of that town. If you run out of cash you lose the estate.

They'd have to be worth the gold spent on them though, maybe upgradeable/customizable stat boosts instead of more gold. The more gold you spend, the better the boost, and higher the taxes.

The problem is, how do we lose/take them? There'd have to be some way to challenge the owner. Maybe the tax doesn't come out of their bank, but they have to keep gold at the estate, and if it runs out...or if someone was able to rob the tax shipment before it got to the town...or maybe we get rid of the limit, and anyone can own one as long as they can pay the taxes. (Which would make some towns more valuable depending on where people build the estates.)

I dunno. My brain is fried for the day. Most of this was based on the idea that it would hurt a town if it was placed under siege. So I guess it doesn't have to be in the wilderness areas.

[Hugh Longshanks]

Idea: what about some type of strength/prestige bonus? An idea that I know was thrown around quite frequently back in the first kingdom of Malkier was that of having private armies of retainers. Nobody ever thought of a method of actually making them useful, other than bragging rights, but they would certainly come in handy if there were the possibility of capturing enemy estates.

As to translating money into power: what about nobility? What if a certain amount of money, combined with ownership of a location (this could be the aforementioned estates, or else clan ownership of a town), could grant a character the ability to buy a title?
This title could bestow the ability to grant lower titles to other characters (perhaps), or else perhaps a payroll system for other characters (payroll is something I've been wanting to do with the Company for a while - after all, what are hired blades without payment?). In addition, one would be given the opportunity to hand down one's title to another character if so desired (not sure how this would work/if anybody would want it, but it might come in handy). They might even carry through between ages, and carry estates with them.
This concept is very much a work in progress - feel free to tear it up, cause I'll doing that in my own head as well.

I also have some ideas for translating clans into kingdoms, though I haven't properly thought it out yet. It would probably involve making the clan bonuses (which are small, attack-based, and ultimately temporary) into a more permanent asset, preferably one that will have a more political implication.

Any other thoughts?

P.S. Jenlyn and King: great idea. I would fully support manors.

[Crom Cruach]

Hi everyone, I only started playing current version a few days ago, but I'm impressed by the new features, expecially professions.

Anyway, back to the topic, the key is probably giving clans more to spend upon (as a clan, but in the end it's the members money isn't it?) once they gain at least one town.

Since the other big topic is warfare, the logic thing to do is to make clans spend money rising an army. Professions could come in handy here, as there could be one new profession, the General, that is only available to clan leaders (or perhaps to subleaders if the leader decides to appoint them so).

Just like the farmer, the general should be able to buy Barracks (but only in towns his clan controls), that produce armies instead of money. The general should be able to spend the clan's bank money in getting more barracks or improvements. And obviously existing armies add to the clans upkeep.

Armies could be used to lay sieges (see King's post in this topic gosos.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=suggest&action=display&thread=1060) or to defend a town from a siege.

You could go further by setting more requirements for a clan to own armies: for instance, it may be required that one clan member be a blacksmith, and that he obtained a min level in that profession which allows the clan to provide their armies with weapons.

That said, I must clarify my view... Although I think warfare could be an improvement to the game (either in the shape of this idea or any other), I'm not sure whether it really belongs to the GoS' original conception. I mean, this game was mainly based on individuals, not kingdoms. Besides, warfare on big scale could lead to the paradox of small clans with big armies, or the other way round.

[Hugh Longshanks]

Here here Crom! I love that idea.

[Crom Cruach]

Thanks! Actually another idea came to mind while reading your suggestion about taxes: if clans have to be like kingdoms then they also have to spend money for roads & bridges, security & order, etc..
For instance, travelling to and from the town would be faster/slower according to the roads conditions. The better the roads conditions the more people will be attracted by that town.
Perhaps it could be made so that the level of security provided by a town extends to the closer 4 wilderness areas, by lowering/rising the avarage NPC level you can encounter there.
So, basically, it works like the shops: the more you spend on your town's wellfare the more people (likely) will travel to/from your town, paying you a toll every time.
Someone also suggested creating customs duties, I think that could work the same way.

[Hugh Longshanks]

The wilderness areas idea is brilliant, I think. I also think it might be good to start enacting some form of physical control over areas.
Or, alternately clan-only (or clan and ally-only) shops with more inventory than the general shop.

[michael]

the estates idea is cool ,i'd like to see that play out. As for clans like kingdoms that also could work nicely in having more people join other clans not just there own. I like the Armies in owned towns , some times it takes you awhile to take the town then like over night all your work could be for nothing cause you have to keep battling to retake it ,