Horses more involved in game

[flyingfang]

alright... so after reading Tin's comment on pets my mind went into overdrive...
oh my god... this post is HUGE! wtf. sorry.

personal i believe horses should become more involved in the game. they are a huge aspect in the book, Bela rules, and i think should effect some things in game.

Pony, Donkey, Mule, Aged Horse, Horse, War Horse
this way of ranking mounts is ok. it would be sooooo cool if breeds in the books where brought into play, but then there would need to be a revamp of ranking. i have thoughts on how to do that too... if you want to hear them then just ask. right now though i'm just going to work with the ranking system in place, and adding more that works with it.

1st
Horses and their effects in duels
the tali of steeds adds speed, if a pitiful amount, so why should your real steed not?
pony i could see only adding 1... donkey 2, mule 4, aged horse 7, horse 11? maybe... i'm not very good at coming up with numbers or balancing things.

now the war horse... the war horse bugs me...
by adding war in front of horse you are making it a specially trained horse. like cart horse, race horse, cutting horse, barrel horse, bulldogging horse, dressage horse, jumping horse ect.
-_- you would not use a war horse to pull a cart... just like you would not use a bulldogging horse to run barrels, trust me that just dose not work.(though it is funny to watch)
so a war horse should have more effect in duels than the other mounts.
16-17 speed 19-20 damage? or whatever you think would be better Tim.
and they should not be able to pull carts. *nods* and be more expensive!

2nd
Their effect in inventory and travel
The way it is set up is great! higher horse: faster travel and more inventory!
what bugs me is the war horse.
my thoughts:
bring in a cart horse! this horse would have no effect in duels but would pull the largest cart(though it is irritating that 1 horse can pull full sized wagon but i can let that slide in my mind)! probably cost less than the war horse but still allot more more than a normal horse, cause it is 'specialized'.

Your saying we should have to choose between duels or inventory?!?
nope.
i'm saying we should be allowed to have 2(at least for now) animals! ;D

when you, say, buy a pony you should have the option of using it as a pack pony or a riding pony. and the same with all the other steeds(except the cart and war). so the steed you choose for a pack animal will only effect what you can and can't pull and the mounted animal will only effect duels!
now this also means you will have to feed 2 horses so that would be something for the player to keep in mind. or 1 if you just want to use the horse for one thing.

but both the specialized horses(cart and war) should be something you need to work for to earn. so i think they should be very expensive.

3rd
Equipment
more for the lols but...
horses have equipment too and things that can effect how they perform.
bits, saddles, harnesses, and shoes would be the main ones.
*listed from weakest/smallest to strongest/largest*

Bits/Head stall: for both pack(increases travel time a little) and mounted(increases speed a little)
Hackamore(truth be told, hackamores can be used on horses trained specifically for them, but more often it is used to start horses/used on older horses with sore mouths. adds no extra stats)
Snaffle
Curb
i would say are the main ones. with variations of each type but i think the broad terms work just fine.

Saddles: Mounted only(+ a little speed, maybe a little Def)
Pad(like just a blanket with a rope holding it on)(no extra stats)
Light Saddle (English saddle)
Heavy Saddle (Stock saddle, or at least one with high cantle and pommel like east asian style)
Armored(+ extra Def)
Harnesses: Pack(+ a little to travel time)
Rope collar(no extra)
Breastcollar
Horse collar
um... i don't know allot about harnesses but in the research i found this is the main distinguishing thing about them, the collars.

Shoes: both, similar to bits
Bare foot(no added stats)
Brass
Steel
Wedged (could add damage for the mounted*winces at the thought of getting kicked by a horse with wedged on*)

with a bit of digging around in some horse books and asking my mom i could probably find more for each area too. this is just what i could pull off the top of my head and a little digging from wiki.


*oh as a side note, could someone add the list of what you can get at the blacksmith? i couldn't recall what you got first, second, ect. and i had wanted to see what they all where. or if you could just tell me i could add it... if i remember my password...

[Tim]

First things first:

• Bag (starting)
  
• Backpack - 20s
  
• Small Cart - 1g
  
• Cart - 3g
  
• Farm Cart - 5g
  
• Carriage - 10g
  
• Wagon - 20g
  

Very interesting ideas. Having horses tweak your stats would add a bit more customization, without being that much work on my end (depending on how indepth I go I guess). I will say there's no way I'll have horses add anywhere near that much speed. Adding 10 speed has about the same effect as +60% damage, assuming you and your opponent are about even in damage dealing (I've been working on balancing stats, so I actually know ). Considering the most speed increase you can get from all your talismen that I can think of off the top of my head is +18 (which includes some negative damage and would effectively use around 1/3rd of your points currently), I don't think a single item should be anywhere near as effective as 6 talismen. The stats you suggested for the warhorse would be equilient to 304 equip points, 26 levels worth. Would be a BIT to influenetial if you ask me. ;D

I think smaller stat tweaks would be better. Really, you'd be hard pressed to talk me into more that +3 speed on any of them, easily has the biggest influence on battles of any stats (hence it costs a lot and usually comes with negative effects). Perhaps different horses could add different stats (ie. defense, damage, dodge). There wouldn't necessarily be anything to say that the horse upgrades would have to be linear either. Two horses could add different, yet equally effective stats, making the choices available based not just on price but on preference, if you're someone that likes to go the speed and damage route, the buy a horse that matches that style (like a war horse); if you like defense and dodge, choose a horse that fits that. There would still be a progression, so you still want/need to buy new horses, but you wouldn't neccessarily have to buy every horse to get the 'best'.

I agree that it doesn't make the most since for a war horse to be pulling a wagon. Perhaps it would make more sense for separate mount and pack animals. The best pack animals could even be a team of horses to pull the wagon. The combination of what pack animal and what kind of storage could affect your travel speed (ie. a team could pull a wagon much faster than any single horse).

As for the animal equipment, I like the idea, but again I wouldn't want it to be that large a tweak. Any stats gained from purchases for horses would be indepentant of the equip points system (unless I try to tie it in, which wouldn't make much sense), which isn't necessarily a bad thing, but it could lead to trivalizing weapons as focusing your money on horses and their gear wouldn't have the restrictions (balancing) of other equipment. Basically would lead to whoever spends the most money on their horse wins the battle. I'm fine with the little tweaks that could tilt the favor one way or the other against close opponents, but horse equipment should not be more effective than normal equipment.

I would LOVE to change the names of the mounts to be more reflective of the books (bring in Tairen stock and Domani Razors ;D), but I haven't had the time to look up the different types of horses referenced in the books or do I know enough about horses to put them any type of order of place stats on them. If someone else wants to look into this for me, I'd definately try to work them in.

Guess I got a bit long winded too. Not saying yes or no to any of the ideas lists yet, but you definately got me thinking.

[almordre]

Hey - Bela could be the all-powerful wandering NPC that you score talismans from...

LOL - sorry, just had to say it...

[flyingfang]

lol. honestly i was just pulling numbers out of the air. so... yeah, just saying. i know next to nothing about balancing so i ain't going to argue with you in the slightest about whatever you do for the numbers. ect.

oooooo. i like the idea of having different horses doing different stats allot better.

lol. and the team of horses would be cool... though i do know one horse can pull 4-6 times its own weight if you want to get technical. XD if you want to work that in *random fact i felt like sharing* oh and they can carry 20% of their own weight too! *will stop now*
so depending on how big that wagon is and how big the horses are, 2 horses could pull it. lol. or it'll take a team of 8-10

you... you could make itty bitty numbers for the tack...
idk. lol. again all i did was pull things out of the air and tried to give examples of what the tack would generally do. sooo yeah... you can ignore all the number crap i suggested
you could have a limit for what each horse breed,level,whatever your doing.
but...
maybe not... idk.

*wants a Razor and a Border stock really badly*
i'v done a little research on the horses in the books but there isn't much on the interwebs(dang people... obsessed with rand. who cares about him and the 'main characters', i mean really. lmfao). but i don't mind digging a bit more. and... i have a bit of horse sense.

hehe. A none answer is never a bad answer. but it's cool that i educed thought... i tend to have problems doing that in my own mind.



lmao Al.
no... Bela is the Creator, dur.
she should give use limitless health points. *nods*
and wings.