Post by Tim on Sept 11, 2008 13:04:03 GMT -6
Wow. Lots of things to responed to in just one post. Well here it goes.
I agree that no matter what I do with alts (or even not doing anything), some people aren't gonna like it. So in the end I'll just have to do what I think is best for the game.
I have a few issues with these. Creativity as well as 'inferior' equipment are pretty subjective and therefore hard to measure constantly. You're examples are fairly black and white, but there will always be a gray area. I have enough work to do other than police this stuff and if I put someone else in charge of it, they will just end up being the bad guy when they delete an alt that others don't feel was justifiable. To much room for drama.
Also not sure how much I like relying on public policing. It would open up a lot of public debate about what's fair and what's not and what constitutes as proof of abuse. Don't want any 'he said/she said' type deals.
1. First and foremost, I have been against any item or skill that grants +%xp from about 3 days into V2 beta. I had been doing nothing but trading shots with my wife for 3 days in 10 minute intervals wearing our queenly gear against bare flesh. I was first to level 20, could not be beaten, and realized that what I loved about GoS was gone. The new leveling system, combined with the xp items would actually make it impossible to win in fights against people even a few levels above your own.
With each age Craig improved on this a bit. The last, with most high end talismans providing +xp made it so you could fight with good equipment, never touching an alt, and still keep up with people who fought nothing but alts.
Ditch +xp items and skill bonus. (side note - limit + gold steal. about 105% cap? come one)
Now you can fight alts for an automatic 20 xp, but with much less effort, just fight people who you know you can always beat and get the same. Either way bores the hell out of me, but I at least know that if I fall behind the pack, a little boredom will get me back to competition level in no time.
In another thread I talked about changing the experience system to reflect the equipment others are using compared to their level. Opponent level and equipment (Heavy, medium, light type thing) would determine the experience you gain. This would reward those who face and defeat challenging opponents. Granted, it would mark out the weaker ones a bit, but hopefully with some balancing I can make it worth wild to fight tougher people.
And you might notice in the new weapon stat thread that +xp% was off the list. That was purposeful. People with +xp% could keep up with those battling purely alts... unless those battling alts also had the +xp%.
And I agree that there should be a limit to gold steal.
I think this might be too limiting for legit players and not all that effective in stopping people from hoarding gold in their shop till. We'd just see a bunch of 1,234,567 sharpened sticks on sale. Perhaps it would be easier just to get rid of the shop til all together. Split money gained from market between your bank and your pocket.
I'd say no to no xp for beating someone x levels higher than you, but with the new system, there would have to be a cap of how much levels effect xp gain.
I believe that you already don't get xp for fighting allies. If that's not true, then I'll change it so it is. I don't like limiting trade though as I have friends in various clans. I do plan to limit trade between the same IP address, though I no that won't completely fix the problem. There will be exceptions granted for that too if there are multiple users with the same IP. I'll take some convincing though.
Agreed.
Possibly. I don't plan on storing all permanently though for database issues, so we'll have to see how useful this would be.
Possibly. Again, not sure how useful it would be. With other steps, it could be a moot point.
Not convinced on this one. I don't have a problem with people passing equipment down to other clan members. I admit it does give those others an advantage, but making worn items worthless seem a bit extreme. Perhaps if weapon degradation was brought back it would have a similar effect though.
If I put in place any measures to reduce alts, something like this would have to be present. My measure won't be able to stop all alt abuse, so this would have to cover the rest, as well as give me the right to punish any caught abusing.
All in all, lots of good ideas and suggestions! Keep them coming!
Any limits from no alts, to a maximum per person will just be cause problems. Obvious, uncreative and serious game effecting alt use has to be controlled.
I agree that no matter what I do with alts (or even not doing anything), some people aren't gonna like it. So in the end I'll just have to do what I think is best for the game.
Let say you wanted 50 characters. You go through the work of laying some personality, motivation and beliefs into each of them, and I'm just as happier to have 50 potential friends or enemies than I would be to have just 1.
Someone else has their main character and decides to have an alt. They name the aaaa bbbb, never bother with an avatar or profile. Don't respond to messages or put anything out there in clan or town messages. Have terribly inferior equipment. ect.... I would at least want someone to have the power to delete aaaa bbbb or have the main character marked out in some way with a scarlet letter A for poor Altmanship.
For something like this, you as the creator would be stuck having to make decisions, and we as players just have to trust you or take a hike.
Someone else has their main character and decides to have an alt. They name the aaaa bbbb, never bother with an avatar or profile. Don't respond to messages or put anything out there in clan or town messages. Have terribly inferior equipment. ect.... I would at least want someone to have the power to delete aaaa bbbb or have the main character marked out in some way with a scarlet letter A for poor Altmanship.
For something like this, you as the creator would be stuck having to make decisions, and we as players just have to trust you or take a hike.
I have a few issues with these. Creativity as well as 'inferior' equipment are pretty subjective and therefore hard to measure constantly. You're examples are fairly black and white, but there will always be a gray area. I have enough work to do other than police this stuff and if I put someone else in charge of it, they will just end up being the bad guy when they delete an alt that others don't feel was justifiable. To much room for drama.
Also not sure how much I like relying on public policing. It would open up a lot of public debate about what's fair and what's not and what constitutes as proof of abuse. Don't want any 'he said/she said' type deals.
1. First and foremost, I have been against any item or skill that grants +%xp from about 3 days into V2 beta. I had been doing nothing but trading shots with my wife for 3 days in 10 minute intervals wearing our queenly gear against bare flesh. I was first to level 20, could not be beaten, and realized that what I loved about GoS was gone. The new leveling system, combined with the xp items would actually make it impossible to win in fights against people even a few levels above your own.
With each age Craig improved on this a bit. The last, with most high end talismans providing +xp made it so you could fight with good equipment, never touching an alt, and still keep up with people who fought nothing but alts.
Ditch +xp items and skill bonus. (side note - limit + gold steal. about 105% cap? come one)
Now you can fight alts for an automatic 20 xp, but with much less effort, just fight people who you know you can always beat and get the same. Either way bores the hell out of me, but I at least know that if I fall behind the pack, a little boredom will get me back to competition level in no time.
In another thread I talked about changing the experience system to reflect the equipment others are using compared to their level. Opponent level and equipment (Heavy, medium, light type thing) would determine the experience you gain. This would reward those who face and defeat challenging opponents. Granted, it would mark out the weaker ones a bit, but hopefully with some balancing I can make it worth wild to fight tougher people.
And you might notice in the new weapon stat thread that +xp% was off the list. That was purposeful. People with +xp% could keep up with those battling purely alts... unless those battling alts also had the +xp%.
And I agree that there should be a limit to gold steal.
2. Make item trading a 1 way endeavor. You can only send items to characters at or below your level. With this in place a change to the market as well would have to happen. You can only buy items from the market that you could get in a drop for your level.
I think this might be too limiting for legit players and not all that effective in stopping people from hoarding gold in their shop till. We'd just see a bunch of 1,234,567 sharpened sticks on sale. Perhaps it would be easier just to get rid of the shop til all together. Split money gained from market between your bank and your pocket.
3. I hate this one, but it would help win count alt abusers. There's a no xp/no win battle clause for anyone 5 levels below you. There need be a 7-10 level cap for giving a win to someone you fight above you in levels.
I'd say no to no xp for beating someone x levels higher than you, but with the new system, there would have to be a cap of how much levels effect xp gain.
4. Here on out are just some maybe things.... Only trades allowed with in a guild combined with no xp for fighting a guildmate. Would need the market item level cap in place too.
I believe that you already don't get xp for fighting allies. If that's not true, then I'll change it so it is. I don't like limiting trade though as I have friends in various clans. I do plan to limit trade between the same IP address, though I no that won't completely fix the problem. There will be exceptions granted for that too if there are multiple users with the same IP. I'll take some convincing though.
5. Auto-banking 80% in, 20% out with no market bank. This might make alts nearly as expensive as they are helpful.
6. Having all attack/defense results public domain so spotting alt XPers would be simple.
Possibly. I don't plan on storing all permanently though for database issues, so we'll have to see how useful this would be.
7. Having all trades and market transactions public. Market would have to be an after the sale sort of thing, not listed as 'Blademasters talisman of Havoc - For sale by Malorian - 666666 gold.
8. No return policy. You bought it or found it. Sell it. Give it away. Destroy it. - Once you have gone and worn it it's worthless. You already stunk it up. This would make hand me down impossible. It would be somewhat harder to keep an alt high enough level to be of great use to your main character. Also some of the huge advantage given by being part of a heavily populated guild would be lessened.
9. Put a little 'I will treat each character I play as individuals of equal importance, never one in servitude to another. This I swear on the memory of Robert Jordan" - I feel kind of guilty already and I only wrote it, not agreed to it.
All in all, lots of good ideas and suggestions! Keep them coming!