Clan Warfare Harming Clan/Player Economies

[Jenlyn]

In Silver Legion chat, we discussed some ways that we might add greater meaning to clan warfare as a way to enhance the game. As it stands now, there is little point to clan warfare beyond control of towns. It was a great starter system, but it hasn't really evolved much.

Having also played a game in which clan wars have a huge effect on game play, I can appreciate both how this can enhance a game, and how it can make a game time-consuming and laden with anxiety. We have a really cool game here in which most of our achievements remain intact while we're away from the computer, and we can be somewhat competitive without being tied to the game 24/7. That's one of the game's great strengths, so I wouldn't want to detract from that. All the same, I think it would be more fun if we were to add a sharper edge to it.

Some ideas that were bounced around included laying siege to towns (this could range from decreased shop sales or lowered clan member bonuses to something rather nasty, like actually attacking the town with siege weapons like catapults that lower shop levels, repair capacity of the blacksmith shop, etc.) Perhaps rivers could be blockaded and tariffs imposed, or piracy could become rampant, fields could be burned or foraged to support armies laying siege, mines could be fought over, etc.

These things would have to cost an attacking empire such that it could not be sustained indefinitely, but it would need to impose a significant inconvenience to the defending clan in order to be worth implementing. Clans could also build defenses and outposts to defend against such things. There might be restrictions set in place so that large clans could not bully small clans into deletion or annexation. We wouldn't want to drive players away from the game.

Would the rest of you enjoy making clan wars more meaningful? What ideas can you come up with?

[Tim]

I completely agree that clan warfare is kinda pointless at the moment. You can battle over towns, but even that you're not really hurting other other clan too much if you take the clan (some loss of income from shop sales and their name isn't on top as Ruler). You also steal small amounts of gold from enemy clans to yours, but even that's not TOO big a deal since most people spend their turns on NPCs.

I had an idea to make clan battles more...formal, that I was going to add in V6 but I've moved it out to v7 due to lack of time. Really, it is about time for clans to get an overhaul again. V1 changes were mainly about clans, and I haven't really changed much since.

Main new features in Version:
V1- Clans controling towns; improved clan and town features
V2- Item stats overhaul; Equip Points added.
V3- Character Classes; NPC battles
V4- Quests; Message Center; Consumable Items; Clan Offices
V5- Improved Skills System; Improved Quests; More Stats; Chat
V6- Professions; Weapon Degradation; Improved Stats/Titles (in work)

Really, the only change to clans since V1 is the Clan Offices, and that added more for clans to do in general (by not limiting shop upgrades to just town Rulers), it also made Ruling towns even less important. So I'll tell you right now what my general plans are for V7...

V7- Equipment improvements; Clan improvements

The first one I have a pretty good idea of what I want to add (though am still definately open to suggestions), but the second is much more sketchy. Like Jenlyn pointed out, one of the strengths of GoS is that it does NOT demand your time to be competative. So the tricky part will be balancing consequences for Wars without forcing players log in hourly to prevent their complete destruction.

I like the idea of making wars about controlling towns and coin. Controlling towns needs more of an incentive to make controling them worth the effort (increased income from 'taxes' on the other shops transactions that happen there?). Perhaps better stat bonuses for clans who control areas? Purchasable improvements sound like a good idea. Perhaps they even remain in the town if the town gets taken over, so while a town you've controlled for a while is well upgraded, it also makes it a shinier target to other clans.

Clans also need more to spend there money on than upgrading shops. The clan upgrades right now are quite limited. Perhaps instead of making clan upgrades losable from lack upkeep (or just lack of upkeep), they can be destroyed/taken as a result of a war.

I have a couple more thoughts, but I'll wait to see what you guys come up with.

Go Team!

[alSeen]

well for towns we could raise armies. not huge ones but like just an extra stat to defend the town against invading clans. different troops could be made and to recruit them we would either have to pay a lot, or buy the weapon/armor and ect. (this could be only used for destroying shops, bonuses, ect. nothing to harm the clan, directly anyway, or to take over towns). that way the clan doesnt have to be there all the time.

[King Richard]

Since town control is the clan's main goal right now, I've thought of a few ways to improve that too. And regretfully, will probably make it harder for one clan to control half the world. This will also tie into the wealth = power thing. I'm gonna add some suggestions for Jenlyn's economy idea here too, since it ties in to my idea about warfare.

Economy
Jenlyn mentioned Estates that we can buy, and upgrade to show our wealth. I'll post the main details of this idea in Jenlyn's other thread, but part of it is Taxes. There are currently 18 towns and 18 wildernesses right? So Estates should be purchased in the wildernesses, and be very expensive. Each wilderness would be tied to 1 town. So, an estate in the Aiel Waste would pay it's taxes to Rhuidean etc. And hourly taxes go into the clan bank of the Clan that controls the town the estate is linked to. More on this in the other thread.

Attack!

About Jenlyn's Siege idea. I think clans should be able to buy sieges on specific towns. Each level of Siege would have a different cost, effect, and time limit. And risk for failure. ;D But before you can do them, you have to buy a clan upgrade first. Maybe something like this:

Level 1 clan upgrade = 10g
This would allow you to do a Light Siege

• Cost - 1g
  
• Time limit - 1 hour
  
• All business profits, if collected during the siege, reduced by 2% for the duration of the siege. (Including the cut the clans get for shops)
  
• Hourly taxes from town's estates reduced by 25%.
  
• And, since a town's defenses are its win counts, the controlling clan loses 100 town points for the hour, and can be repaired/purchased back, unless you lose. Then you have to wait till you get the town back. But you should only be able to get back 50% of them.
  
• Risk for failing to capture the town in the time allotted, you should either permanently lose 50 wins in the town, or lose 10 in all your other towns. (Can't decide which is better. The idea is that if you spend the money, and fail, the rest of your citizens/townfolk, may not be too impressed or confident in your abilities to lead them.)
  
• Reward for capturing the town, 10% of the losing clan's bank.
  

Level 2 clan upgrade. 100g
Medium Siege

• Cost - 10g
  
• Time limit - 12 hours
  
• All business profits reduced by 4% for the duration of the siege.
  
• Hourly taxes from town's estates reduced by 50%.
  
• The controlling clan loses 500 town points for the duration.
  
• Risk - you permanently lose 250 wins in the town, or lose 100 in all your other towns.
  
• Reward for capturing the town, 15% of the losing clan's bank.
  

Level 3 clan upgrade = 1000g.
Heavy Siege

• Cost - 100g
  
• Time limit - 24 hours
  
• All business profits reduced by 6%
  
• Hourly taxes from town's estates reduced by 75%.
  
• The controlling clan loses 1000 town points for the duration.
  
• Risk - you permanently lose 500 wins in the town, or lose 250 in all your other towns.
  
• Reward for capturing the town, 25% of the losing clan's bank.
  

Level 4 clan upgrade = 10,000g
Complete Siege

• Cost - 1000g
  
• Time limit - 2 days
  
• All business profits reduced by 8%
  
• Hourly taxes from town's estates reduced by 100%.
  
• The controlling clan loses 1500 town points for the duration.
  
• Risk - you permanently lose 750 wins in the town, or lose 375 in all your other towns.
  
• Reward for capturing the town, 50% of the losing clan's bank.
  

Confusing enough for you? Each clan should only be allowed to do 1 siege at a time per town, and your siege will end as soon as you take control of the town. But if you can convince allies to lay siege too, things could get interesting. Though it would have to be you lose the turns in the town you're attacking if you want allied help, so they don't lose

It could also be a length based effective system, where the closer the siege gets to it's end, the more effective it is, so you don't have to attack right away. Though you risk them logging on and stopping you. Maybe instead of losing all 1500 town wins at once, they lose a certain number per hour.

DE-FENCE

Defense upgrades should also be available. Stuff like being able to reduce a siege's length, or effectiveness. But only up to 25% completely maxed. And you have to buy it in each town you own.

[hossla]

or you could go with upgrades, walls, gates, drawbridges, moats,etc..., the one I've been thinking about is if your clan controls all four towns around a wilderness area, the clan's bonues will cover the wilderness area

[Hugh Longshanks]

Hossla, that is brilliant!
In fact, here's an idea to go with Jenlyn and KR's plans (which are also brilliant): what if defensive troops (and offensive - ie, the effectiveness of a siege) were based on the wilderness areas around one's towns? In other words, if you own Rhuidean, you can use all the NPCs in the Aiel Waste (with different costs for levels/types of forces) as either defensive or offensive forces.
Essentially, specialization to make the process more exact (ie, the different specific attributes of the NPCs would stack up against each other in certain ways, with forces from some areas more sited to use against forces from other areas).
I would really like a system that allowed the setup of independent kingdoms (controlling towns and wilderness) that could fight each other.

[alSeen]

i really like the kingdoms idea, tried to get tim to do that during v2 haha. anyway love the idea about the NPCs so i got an idea that would be cool and add diversity.

so your idea was to use the NPCs from the places around the town/estate/ect. well what if after u do that, the forces u recruited (if u dont disband them) could travel with u to other parts of the world? that way aiel would be in Tear and Illainers could be fighting in the borderlands. also, your forces would also diminsh slightly the farther u are away from their place of origin (as in they deserted ) so if some brought Aiel to Tear, the next person fighting near tear could find small bands of Aiel to recriut or fight. wow that sounds freakin complicated lol but it would be neat haha

[hossla]

instead of NPCs it my better to hire players alts,say, up to 5 at a time, they would have to be tie to your alt so they move with you and couldn't move more than two places(town, wilderness,or wilderness, town) away from their commander, the commander could have them duel up to ten times in 24 hours, they all duel at once against players or NPCs

[King Richard]

Could be that when you log off, you could set a sell sword price, somewhere in town, and someone else could hire your alts while you're offline. Then they could follow you until that person logs in.

I wouldn't mind pimping Boden's awesomeness every now and then. For the right price anyway.

[hossla]

another thing you could do with clan bonues, is for a small or large price you could add your allies to be covered with your clan bonues in your town, this would make your allies want to fight for you and make it easiler for your enemies to take over a town or two with all your allies sitting in your towns

[Hugh Longshanks]

I second Hossla's suggestion. Great idea! Another possibly good item would be being able to support clans who aren't technically allied - in the case of a mercenary company, it would mean the opportunity to actually take contracts on locations without need of alliance.

[Tim]

Not gonna go with support for non-allies due to the way clan score is calculated. If you can support non-allied clans, those clan's members could battle each other and the supported clan would get all the points regardless of the winner. Battles between allies don't count towards clan score, so it prevents this.

Liking all the suggestions so far though. Keep the ideas flowing!

[Edvar al'Given]

I like the ideas as well. Both of them. Since you don't want to do it Hugh's way, what if worked like a quest. Gain, say, 200 wins in city of choice, 20 gold goes into questers clan bank. (numbers subject to change lol) From time quest is accepted until quest is compleyed all quester clans wins in or around chosen city count for quest makers clan. Like a mercenary contract.

[hossla]

That's a great idea, put alot of the ideas here into one neat package, plus add in something like if they don't make the 200 wins in two or three days all the wins to that point goes to the defenders, if they can come up with twice the amount of gold.

[Hugh Longshanks]

Second Edvar - that would do nicely.