Post by Crom Cruach on Dec 14, 2011 3:59:23 GMT -6
Hey folks I need your help solving this dylemma...
Do channelers need to embrace the source in order to be able to detect someone else's channeling ability? Does it work differently with men and women?
When I say "channeling ability" I mean just the capacity to embrace the Power. The target may or may not be embracing the source in that moment.
Specificly, I was wandering whether a channeler could recognize another individual as channeler when both of them are in an Ogier Stedding. Since the Stedding's effect is to block channelers from the source, if embracing the Power was needed to detect other people's ability, then within a Stedding channelers couldn't be recognized as such.
For men, I believe you need to be using the Power. From what I remember of the scene where Taim shows Rand how to do it at The Farm, it was a simple weave that had to be held in place for a while to check.
For women, I don't really remember if it's been explicitly said, but I believe they also must be embracing the Source at least. We never see Mo testing Egwene, just that Mo says she has the spark. I remember tons of other scenes where, Salidar AS especially, there is talk of recruiting new Novices, but don't remember if they ever said how it was done. I don't think it's as simple as just walking into a room and pointing though, so I suspect at least embracing the source must be involved.
interestingly enough, i dont believe anyone can "detect" the others ability outright. although Mo did hint that once your a full sedai you need to be able to gauge the other sedais full capability. now whether this is while connected to the source or not i do not know.
i do know rand detects women when the women embrace the source, and to see if someone has it (for men) they do the candle light test (not the real name but close enough) when if the testee can 'embrace' the given source ( kind of like hitting the gas part of a lighter next to an open flame and the lighter 'catches')
for women testing, its pretty much the same, the aes sedai embraces the power and if the women can do it she will tether up (in a way of speaking) but a lot of women self discover too, so its not really brought up till the second towers rising.
the only way to find if someones a channeler in the stedding, is to see if the men are displaying extreme paranoia and anxiety, or constantly whining about having to 'get out'. it might be harder with lady sedais as they are trained to exhibit full composure even under the most dire of circumstances. so if they are displaying the same conditions as male outwardly, then youll know they are a sedai and have been gone from the source for a looOng time
Last Edit: Dec 14, 2011 23:47:25 GMT -6 by Uncle Cid
Cid Highwind (ret.), Red XIII, Hioin Isiil, Jaad Isiil
Post by Crom Cruach on Dec 15, 2011 6:30:41 GMT -6
I had bet on the other answer, that you wouldn't need to hold the Power. But people on other forums have given me similar answers to yours, so I was probably wrong.
I fear the only proof supporting my assumption isn't so self-evident .... I remember somewhere in the first books it was said that cats and dogs react to channelers proximity. But, if holding the Power was needed to detect channelers, then I'd assume that cats and dogs not only have the spark, but they can actually reach the Source!!
Post by King Richard on Dec 15, 2011 11:51:36 GMT -6
I think that's how it is, but I do remember something in New Spring, about Mo saying you had to judge peoples strength before you talked to them or something. Which makes it hard, cause not everyone is holding all the time. So I tend to think women can't tell, if the spark hasn't manifested, but once it does, it's just a matter of being near them. Unless you ward yourself.
For Men though, I think you have to embrace it. Remember that pissing match Rand and Taim had, where they both almost killed themselves trying to hold more than the other, and Rand cheated.
Post by Crom Cruach on Dec 15, 2011 21:33:14 GMT -6
Even in Dragonmount they can't definately clear the doubts around this matter..
This last answer I got approaches the matter from another POV:
BWB Ogier stedding seem to be shielded in some unknown way that completely prevents the One Power from being channeled, or even sensed, within their boundaries; attempts to wield the One Power from outside a stedding have no effect inside it.
..by saying that the Power can't be even sensed inside steddings. Now, someone else argued that maybe you don't have to sense the Source in order to tell if somebody else can channel, but I think that may actually be the case.
And most people seem to think there is indeed a big difference between the ways men and women perceive this, which in truth is predictable being the 2 powers so different in many ways.
Unfortunately my whole 4th-Era alternate setting for a WoT fan-fict is probably going to crumble by the effect of this dylemma
Post by Edvar al'Given on Dec 16, 2011 11:55:10 GMT -6
I've studied this in great detail. Basically, a man can sense when another man is holding saidin. He feels a sense of 'menace' and can judge the strength of it. They can also sense when a woman is holding the Source by goosebumps on their arms. They cannot sense men who could learn to channel without 'the candle light test'. Woman feel a strong kinship with another woman who has the potential to learn. They do not need to be holding it. After time and practice, they learn to judge power levels. They cannot sense a man holding saidin without a weave. The ability to sense others with the Power derives from the Power. If you cannot sense the Power, you cannot sense others who can use it.
Post by Crom Cruach on Dec 20, 2011 7:12:19 GMT -6
Sorry Ed, I only saw your answer today. That's great (or rather it would have been great if that'd been what I hoped to read ). My alternate setting could still have been saved but for that last sentence
The ability to sense others with the Power derives from the Power. If you cannot sense the Power, you cannot sense others who can use it.
which basically says that in a stedding you can't sens other channelers. Thanks anyway - I'll pin this somewhere on my board in the "essential WoT knowledge for fanfict writers". Thanks dahllia for the tip, I've never looked into that site so far because I feared it could completely absorb me!