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Post by Tim on Nov 10, 2008 13:54:51 GMT -6
This thread was made as a response to one of Edvar's posts in the Limiting Alts thread. He put forward the idea of a built in and upgradable clan vault, where clans can store items and other members can withdraw them.
While I like the idea, I'd want to try and do two things: abuse proof it and jerk proof it (as much as possible for both). Here's what I mean.
Jerkproof: What's to stop some jerk from joining a clan, clearing out the vault and leaving? Or a clan member in need of money from taking out the best item in the vault that they can't even use for 20 levels, just to sell it for profit?
Abuseproof: What's to stop people from making clans simply to use the vault as extra storage for their characters? Instead of selling an expensive item they don't need or putting it on the market for others, they could leave it in their vault to sell later right before they need the cash. Or they could use the items as a way of protecting their unbanked gold and store them in this vault.
I realize that most if not all of these are problems faced by the current systems that are in place so even fixing these here wouldn't solve the problem. My thoughts are that I'm doing my best to add things that close loopholes, not add more.
Suggestions?
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flyingfang
Aiel
T'is the end of the world as we know it
Posts: 177
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Post by flyingfang on Nov 10, 2008 14:36:11 GMT -6
to jerkproof it maybe the leader or sub-leader of the clan would have to aprove of the transaction.
<__<; i cant think of anything for abuse proof...
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Post by Tintomara on Nov 10, 2008 14:50:05 GMT -6
Another way to kind of jerk proof it would be that the leader and/or subleader can set permissions for each member to say if they're allowed to use the clan vault or not. That isn't entirely jerk proof, but then the clan has to be careful who they trust, and it opens a possibility for some foul play if you can make a clan trust you enough.
For the abuse proof, I also don't have a water tight idea, but there could be a minimum number of members to be able to even have a vault, and in order to upgrade it to store more, you'd need even more members. Sure, someone could make a lot of alts, but it's at least more work. It also makes sense that few members won't need as big a vault as if there are more members...
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Post by Tim on Nov 10, 2008 14:56:32 GMT -6
Well here's a thought I had to limit abuse, though I'm not sure how well people will like it and it would require a decent amount of coding on my part (honestly, I'm not even sure how feasable it is): Once an item has been put in a vault, it will be marked. This item will no longer be tradable/marketable, and selling the item will give you 0g back. When you're done with it, your only option will be to trash it for no profit or donate it back to the shop it came from. This would make using the vault for profit purposes quite difficult. (I think impossible, but I won't put anything past some of you. )
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Post by drizztcruce on Nov 10, 2008 18:13:27 GMT -6
the big problem i see with leader/ sub-leader only being allowed to use vault would be a hindrance if they are rarely around. therefore a busy work schedule would end up causing a leader to hate logging on b/c of complaints.
I would suggest a limit on items in vault for use. example i have a deadly battle sword, i place in vault. bob smith takes uses for a while. gives to jon smith, he uses. and then no more can use. once in vault and item can only be offered to 2 players from vault.
Or once in vault item gets named after clan. therefore only clan members can equip item. a Also, have vault like a character where a moderator/treasurer is in charge of vault. vault could be a non fighting entity. just a place to manage storage by moderator. someone who judges what goes in or out. items sold to shops from here only through moderator. i am unsure if possible but, i like this the best and seems simply.
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Post by Mat Cauthon on Nov 10, 2008 19:48:20 GMT -6
Tim there is a game called fallensword witch many of us have played. I think there clan system is perfect ! they have a clan shop where to putt an item in the clan shop you must clan lock the item. This means that the item can not be sold traded or marketed. it can only be removed by the leader and players with permission. I think this is what we need ?
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Post by Tim on Nov 12, 2008 10:20:37 GMT -6
Ok. Based on the above suggestions, here's what I'm thinking: - Clan vault with limited (possibly upgradable) storage
- Once put into the vault, the item will not be able to be sold, traded, or marketed and will only be equipable by members of that clan (possibly on the last one, depending on how ambitious I get).
- Clan leaders and subleaders only can sell items from the vault. Not sure yet what to do with gold. Possibly none, possibly divided equally among members (remainder of uneven division going to clan leader). I don't want to add a clan bank at this time (though quite possibly in the future, as I do have some ideas that would make that quite handy...).
- Clan leaders can set permissions on the vault: Open to all members or require authorization of leader/subleader.
Looking at the above, it really could be a bit of a challenge depending on how easy it is to add a flag to items as it stands. Part of me wants to hold off on these changes, while part of me says I should do this now while I'm breaking items anyways. We'll see, but I'll add it to my list. What do you guys think of what I have proposed? Its not final by anymeans, so if you have suggestions, please give them.
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Post by Edvar al'Given on Nov 14, 2008 12:59:00 GMT -6
What if you made the Vault viewable by normal members, but only accessible by leadership? Members would be able to send items and gold to the Vaults without restriction. If a member wants an item in the Vault, then they can simply put a bid in on it. Members would be able to see the bid. When leadership sees a bid is up, they may send the member the item. Gold. They could always see how much gold is in the Vaults. If they need gold, the submit a request explaining their need. It would be up to leadership to decide if its a fair request or just b/s. About the clan leader activity, that is an important piece of any clan. If you don't have active leadership, your clan will die out. Bottom line. If the leader will not be active for a while, its his responsibility to make sure his subleaders will be. If they cannot be, he should replace one or both with subs that will be active.
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Post by Tim on Nov 14, 2008 13:46:25 GMT -6
At this point, I don't want to include gold in the clan vaults. Too much room for abuse (there are too many ways of hiding all your gold as it is). I plan to make it optional whether or not all members can access the vault or only leadership, so people who don't want to deal with approving every little tranaction don't have to, but those who want that level of control can have it.
In future releases, I have some ideas for a "Clan bank" and how it could be used, but for now I don't plan on adding it for this version.
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