CDV18: Light vs Shadow changes

[kaldar]

This is confusing to work out because as you said there are different mechanics in play here.

[gerdonat]

well, why dont just make the mechanics more equal? if the city is controlled by a light or neutral clan, then the shadow gets the points for defeating the army, and the light for saving the city, if the city is shadow controlled, then the light gets points for destroying the city... and lock city control like one week before the last battle begins so there is no shenanigans involved.

That way each side has the same goals, but oriented to their own cities, that balances the game too, cause you dont need now to balance so much horde vs army, since each side will have a share of each to battle...

[gerdonat]

if you dont like the concept of the light destroying the city, the light could "free the city" and the city cannot be attacked again in the last battle, but it keeps working under the highest light clan control... or something like that
So, suppose a city is controlled by the shadow at the start of the lb, an army with the same strength that a LB horde attacks the city, the shadow need to destroy the army and has an horde based on the defenses of the city that the light side needs to destroy. Same dynamics that there is now for the other side, if the shadow cannot destroy the big army attacking the city, the city is freed, the highest ji light side or neutral side takes control, and that city is not attacked again during the lb. So for lb purposes is the same than the city is destroyed in the sense that it does not participates again.

Points assigned with the same criteria its today assigned for the shadow when it destroys a city.

You would need to change the "horde" and "army" generation during the lb, you may make it that more hordes are generated rather than armies, but i think its the right direction

[Seitaarin]

at first I thought 'cautious about any mechanic that could lock a city to the light', but then remembered that blowing a city up basically locks it to the shadow, only also destroys it ... so I think there's some merit there in creating a system of being able to lock a city down for light side points. It would actually create a system whereby Shadow would be basically forced to tactically prioritise saving particular cities as quickly as possible in order to maintain points. Would go a ways in moving the LB to an actual battle rather than a scramble.

As for army numbers, that's where the fun part comes in ... clans don't control the city as such, they are just the most influential figures in the local government, right? so the 'army' number is simply the standing army for a given city, whether it receives orders from a Shadow aligned government or a Light aligned government ... that means that controlling cities becomes a double edged sword, as if they build up a local army the run the risk of handing that over ... but if they don't then they run the risk of not being able to defend the city come end times, no matter what the controlling clan's alignment. I think that is kind of cool. Would make picking and choosing office work more of a clan long term decision and a whole lot less black and white.

EDIT: Just as an added thought to that, perhaps combining those 2 ideas is not such a great idea - there would be no real incentive to not build a large army no matter what the alignment, as if a city is locked to light, then army size then becomes completely irrelevant. 

[Tim]

I think Ger's idea for the LB has merits and would relieve a lot of the balancing issues between Light and Shadow. Would mean a pretty big overhaul of how the LB works though. I'll come take your idea and flush it out into a full plan with how the LB would function, then start a new countdown thread to discuss it.

I'm fine with a simple rename of the attacker as "Army" when attacking Shadow controlled cities and "Horde" being the city defenses. Shouldn't be too complicated to handle that change. Will make it less confusing too. I'll work out the full implementation of what all will change, then update this thread with the change.

Seitaarin: Not sure I follow what you mean about army size being irrelevant. If a Light clan has a strong hold on a city and the Shadow is unlikely to take it, Shadow clans would be wise to weaken that city's defenses to make it an easier target in the LB. The same would go if the a Shadow clan had a strong hold a city, the Light clans would be wise to weaken the city's defenses too.


Good suggestions all!

[Seitaarin]

Not really sure what I meant upon reread ... I'm sick as a dog at the moment so the old brain ain't working too reliably. I think I was going off on a thought process along these lines ... hard to articulate at the moment, so I'll just throw a bunch of words at you and hope something sticks ... No point in reducing army in a shadow held city, as it would simply make an attacking light side army a whole lot more powerful, and if destroying the city no longer happens and the city then locks to light side points, then it kind of goes against what's been going on since LB was introduced. On the flip side, if the Shadow reduces armies in a light held city, then that leaves them open to support switching in order to easily change alignment in even semi contested cities right before hordes are due to hit, which could then be exploited in order to lock cities to the light in the same way. Hope that made sense.

[kaldar]

I'll take a crack at this :

Shadow held city during LB - Horde (representative of the light) is attacking the city. If the horde is defeated by the shadow the city remains held for the shadow and continues to the next round of the LB. Army (defending against the incoming horde) if the light defeats the army , the horde size is doubled. if the horde remains at the end of the 30 hours, the city is locked for the light and done for the LB.

Light held city during LB - Horde (representative of the shadow) is attacking the city. If the horde is defeated by the light the city remains held for the light and continues to the next round of the LB. Army - if the shadow defeats the army, the horde size is doubled. if the horde remains at the end of the 30 hours, the city is destroyed and falls endlessly to the shadow.

This has some merits. The main drawback I see is trying to get people to understand which side they are meant to be attacking so possibly we could have a dummy disclaimer next to each of the horde , army (Shadow Attack) or (Light attack)

[Tim]

I will apply Seitaarins idea and make it so armies are always on the light side and hordes are always shadow. Just a change of who's attacking and whose defending. Should make things clearer.