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Post by kaldar on Aug 9, 2016 12:59:45 GMT -6
I have a specific example that doesn't make sense.
At time of this battle , I had + 0 speed , 21 First Strike.
Fought an opponent , and he went first so had higher total than me.
I got 2nd hit , and on that hit did 20 stun and 5 wound, however he got to go after that.
My first issue is that it seems extremely unlikely he could go after that kind of hit with stun and wound.
Then he went , and I got the next hit and did 25 stun and 6 wound.
I got to go again, and did 13 stun.
The opponent's name is Dafe Smith. Maybe you could look at his current configuration and see what his speed and First strike are at, because I have been unable to come up with any numbers that fit this battle.
I figured my numbers went like this
I'm player A , he is player B
Player A : 41 Player B : ?? call it 60
Player A : 41/2 + 20/2 = 30 Player B : ?? call it 30
Player A goes second .... adds in speed
Player A : 50 Player B : 30
20 Stun ; 5 Wound
Player A : 50 Player B : 10
Add in Player B's speed minus 5 from wound .... would have to be extraordinary ....
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Post by kaldar on Aug 9, 2016 13:46:35 GMT -6
Another battle against same opponent, but now I only have Speed + 0 and First Strike = 13
P.S. The battle reads from the bottom up
The turns I find very interesting here are 8, 9, and 10 .... 8 he recovers the initiative after I attacked 3 in a row, but I can't imagine I still would have had the initiative otherwise ... I only hit him for 53 stun in 3 hits so he would have had to be gaining some ground each time. But in turn 9 I recover the initiative from him, and even though I didn't stun him, I retained initiative for turn 10. The only way that could happen is for my "speed" to be higher than his and at this point I am only adding 20 each turn to whatever his is normally , - 6.
39/59 21 35% 41/50 7/12 6
g:9s:0c:86
Lord Kaldar vs Dafe Simth - 21 / 100 battles remaining
Lord attacks.
Dafe is stunned for 14
Poison wracks Dafe's body for 62 damage
Lord takes 120 taint damage
Lord gains 54 health
Lord has 60 health and Dafe has 1 health
Dafe launches into a surprising maneuver.
Poison wracks Lord's body for 25 damage
Lord's taint increases by 30
Dafe gains 41 health
Dafe has 63 health and Lord has 126 health
Lord flails about wildly!
Poison wracks Dafe's body for 111 damage
Lord takes 90 taint damage
Lord gains 33 health
Lord has 151 health and Dafe has 22 health
Lord deals a respectable blow.
Poison wracks Dafe's body for 148 damage
Lord takes 90 taint damage
Lord gains 46 health
Lord has 208 health and Dafe has 133 health
Dafe launches into a surprising maneuver. Lord takes 13 damage
Lord is stunned for 2
Poison wracks Lord's body for 22 damage
Lord's taint increases by 30
Dafe gains 42 health
Dafe has 281 health and Lord has 252 health
Lord connects with a solid hit.
Dafe is stunned for 8
Poison wracks Dafe's body for 123 damage
Lord takes 60 taint damage
Lord gains 22 health
Lord has 287 health and Dafe has 239 health
Lord connects with a solid hit.
Dafe is stunned for 25
Poison wracks Dafe's body for 59 damage
Lord takes 60 taint damage
Lord gains 22 health
Lord has 325 health and Dafe has 362 health
Lord's attack is partially deflected.
Dafe is stunned for 20 and wounded for 6.
Poison wracks Dafe's body for 79 damage
Lord takes 60 taint damage
Lord gains 55 health
Lord has 363 health and Dafe has 421 health
Dafe connects with a solid hit. Lord takes 8 damage
Lord is stunned for 1
Poison wracks Lord's body for 22 damage
Dafe has 500 health and Lord has 368 health
Dafe unleashes the depths of their skill. Lord takes 50 damage
Poison wracks Lord's body for 9 damage
Lord's taint increases by 30
Dafe has 500 health and Lord has 398 health
Lord launches into a surprising maneuver.
Dafe is stunned for 1 and wounded for 4.
Lord takes 30 taint damage
Lord gains 25 health
Lord has 457 health and Dafe has 500 health
Dafe connects with a solid hit. Lord takes 22 damage
Lord is stunned for 1
Poison wracks Lord's body for 16 damage
Lord's taint increases by 30
Dafe has 500 health and Lord has 462 health
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Post by Tim on Aug 9, 2016 20:40:27 GMT -6
I have a specific example that doesn't make sense. At time of this battle , I had + 0 speed , 21 First Strike. Fought an opponent , and he went first so had higher total than me. I got 2nd hit , and on that hit did 20 stun and 5 wound, however he got to go after that. My first issue is that it seems extremely unlikely he could go after that kind of hit with stun and wound. Then he went , and I got the next hit and did 25 stun and 6 wound. I got to go again, and did 13 stun. The opponent's name is Dafe Smith. Maybe you could look at his current configuration and see what his speed and First strike are at, because I have been unable to come up with any numbers that fit this battle. I figured my numbers went like this I'm player A , he is player B Player A : 41 Player B : ?? call it 60 Player A : 41/2 + 20/2 = 30 Player B : ?? call it 30 Player A goes second .... adds in speed Player A : 50 Player B : 30 20 Stun ; 5 Wound Player A : 50 Player B : 10 Add in Player B's speed minus 5 from wound .... would have to be extraordinary .... So looking at the numbers, the battle probably was something like this: Player A: 20 Speed, +21 FS Player B: 28 Speed, +20 FS Player B goes first. Starting movement: A=20 B=38. Then A adds speed. A=40, B=38. A goes 2nd and gets 20 stun and 5 wound. A=40, B=18. B adds 23 A=40, B=41. B goes 3rd. Your problem above was that you added half the speed to the player that when second, not first above. Not going to dig through the numbers for the second battle, as keeping things straight in my head once you get 8 turns in, but I'm guessing it's not so much that he recovered the initiative after you hit 3 in a row as it was that he got a turn because you're not allowed more than 3 in a row. So you may have held the initiative on 9 and 10 because you had built up such a lead on 5,6,&7. |
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Post by kaldar on Aug 10, 2016 6:21:29 GMT -6
Can we run through your example please just so I make sure I understand how turn order works in general? From the wikki , it says this : The player who defended the first turn also adds half their speed back to their total. and this example ... At this point both scores get cut in half, but then A gets to add half their speed back in since they aren't going first. The end result is A=24 B=20. At the end of Player B's turn, 25 more get added on to Player A's speed total. From those examples on the wikki , I would expect your example to go like this : Player A : 20 Speed, +21 FS Player B : 28 Speed, +20 FS Starting stacks : Player A : 41 Player B : 48 ; Player B goes first ! Halve the stacks and add 1/2 Player A Speed since he didn't go first Player A : 30 Player B 24 Add speed of player A since he didn't go last : Player A : 50 Player B 24 Player A goes and gets 20 stun and 5 wound Player A : 50 Player B 4 Player B adds 23 after wounding Player A : 50 Player B 27 Player A goes again ... Thanks for clarifying how turn order actually works as I'm just going by the wikki explanation. P.S. if the wikki is wrong then I would like to put in a bug report on the wikki being wrong  |
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Post by Tim on Aug 11, 2016 7:42:36 GMT -6
Hmm. To be honest, it's been a while since I dug into turn order, so I may be mis-remembering. I'll dig into the code this weekend and maybe do a little testing on the test site and verify the proper series of actions.
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Post by Tim on Aug 14, 2016 22:37:19 GMT -6
So I did some experimenting and noticed 3 things with movement.
1) The initial movement isn't taking into account the 20 base speed of each player. This doesn't effect who goes first and probably won't affect turn order, but I'll fix that for next version.
2) Speed is added at the beginning of the turn, immediately after it's determined whose turn it is. Therefore, wound will not affect turn order until the NEXT time the wounded player adds speed. This kinda hurts wounds effectivity, so I definitely will fix that for next version.
3) Speed is not added the at the end of the first turn. This is by design. The adding half the defending player's speed is done instead to stagger the movements and not give out double turns after a single stun.
So all that in mind, here's what probably happened in your scenario above.
Player A: 20 Speed, +21 FS
Player B: 28 Speed, +20 FS
A=21, B=28 B first. Cut in half, add half speed.
A=31, B=28 A second. Stuns 20, wound 5 B=8 (wound doesn't apply until next time speed gets applied)
A=31, B=36 B third
A=51, B=36 A fourth. Stuns 25, wound 6 B=11
A=51, B=33 A fifth. Stuns 13 B=20
A=51, B=42 A sixth
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Post by kaldar on Aug 15, 2016 18:22:41 GMT -6
Thanks for the explanation ! I knew something was very strange. I appreciate you looking into it and making corrections for next age.
So both players have their tallies halved and then half speed added back in, gotcha.
Great system for determining turn order by the way. It makes every battle unique.
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Post by kaldar on Aug 25, 2016 11:15:35 GMT -6
Can you clear up a couple things from your example ?
Starting with
Player A : 20 Speed , +21 FS
Player B : 28 Speed , +20 FS
starting totals : Player A = 21 , Player B = 28 (Since, as you said , the starting 20 is not being counted at this time)
I'm trying to figure out exactly what you did here for the first turn ... if you halve both players , you get
Player A = 10 , Player B = 14.
How did you arrive at your total of Player A = 31 , Player B = 28 ?
I had thought maybe you only halved Player B and not Player A ? Or did you add Player A's half speed twice ?
Confused.
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Post by kaldar on Aug 27, 2016 4:40:12 GMT -6
Could it have been instead something like this ?
Player A: 20 Speed, +21 FS
Player B: 28 Speed, +20 FS
starting totals : Player A = 21 , Player B = 28 halve both, add half speed of defender
After player B goes first, totals are
Player A = 10 + 10 = 20 ; Player B = 14 ... Player A goes 2nd. A scores 20 stun , 5 wound , but wound not added yet.
Player A = 20 ; Player B = 14 - 20 + 28 = 22 ; Player B goes 3rd.
Player A = 40 ; Player B = 22 ; Player A goes 4th. Stun 25 , wound 6 , but 5 wound is active until next turn.
Player A = 40 ; Player B = 22 - 25 + 23 = 20 ; Player A goes 5th, stun 13
Player A = 40 ; Player B = 20 - 13 + 22 = 29 ; Player A goes 6th
This way is based on starting with halving both players and adding half speed of defender without using base 20 speed to start , and with wound not counting until turn after it is hit. Results in same turn order and makes a bit more sense than how you described it before ... could this be correct ?
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