First Strike

[Seitaarin]

Wondering if there is anyone else can answer this for me, as TC is ignoring my PM while laughing maniacally and spamming 'Double Duel'!!!

Luonyx asked me about this a couple of weeks back and I wasn't sure, but got to thinking about it, did a little bit of experimenting, and worked through alot of combat logs etc ... and it seems to me like first strike applies beyond the first round calculation ... not multiplicatively, only additively, but it's something I had assumed was handled as it states, and the first strike value was removed from further turn calculations ... but it stays in the speed total calculation beyond turn 1?

That would make it untouchable by negative modifiers (ie stun) after the first turn as well, due to limitations capping -speed to the current turn's speed value, right? Basically modifying the base 20pt value of every speed calculation beyond turn 1.

Am I crazy, or what's the go with this??

[King Richard]

I'm pretty sure it's just counted on the first turn, but I'm not 100% sure on that.

[Seitaarin]

See that's what I thought, but it's how it's counted on the first turn that is a bit confusing ...
given that: base = 20
turn1speed = base + speed + firststrike ... ? is this correct, or is first strike included as a pseudo calculation only, without any bearing on the ACTUAL turn 1 total speed calculation?
so following on from that:
turn2speed:
> turn1speed + (base + speed - (stun + wound))
or?
> turn1speed (- first strike) + (base + speed - (stun + wound))

You see the carryover difference? If the simpler scenario 1 calc is how it actually works, then every speed calculation beyond turn 1 is having it's base (20) value pumped on roids by the first strike value. For player1 that value would be an untouchable speed bonus, because player2 can only ever reduce a turn's speed calculation by (base + speed) per stun mechanics per round.

[King Richard]

Yeah, I'm confused now too. I don't think this answers your question, but it's good to know since I don't know if it's written down anywhere else. This is from the most recent thread on stat changes and the last time I know of that FS was messed with.

Aug 19, 2012 22:20:35 GMT -6 Tim said:

- Base speed changed from 15 to 20.
- After who gets the first turn is determined, both movement scores are cut in half. This should make it harder to get triple hits off first strike alone.
...

[Seitaarin]

The wording of that lends weight to scenario 2, but with the halving component involved to mitigate the first strike carryover rather than simply removing first strike as a carried over factor in subsequent calculations. That means that only combined speed + first strike values > 20 provide the 'untouchable' bonus, which is super easy to do. Also brings me to the next point.

Player 2's first movement value is not their first calculation, as in the value used to calculate the first turn of combat comparison. It is instead the value as modified by player 1's - mods on turn 1? Seems this would further enhance the difference created by FS carryover.

Keen to hear from Tim on the mechanics of this, as I had always taken fs at face value prior to this, but the way this appears to work would completely change the way I build for duelling, as I have not deliberately built fs at any point up to this

Sent from my HTC One X using proboards

[Tim]

Sorry. I've been slow to respond on this guys. Been a crazy couple weeks in RL.

The snippet KR posted is accurate. Who goes first is based on the 2 player's speed+first strike values. After that, both are cut in half before the duel starts (specifically to cut the effectiveness of first strike alone giving you multiple hits in a row.

As it stands now, if you have high first strike then yes you have a good chance of getting more than 1 hit right away before your opponent has a chance to counter. If you can take your opponent out in those first few hits, then you're good. However, a build based around first strike alone will likely quickly be overtaken by a build with speed in the later half of the duel.

I'd say play around with it and see if I'm right. If First strike is OP, then I'll have to make some tweaks.

And just saying, the thought of Seitaarin's characters having even STRONGER builds is just scary.

[Seitaarin]

Mostly theoretical at the moment, I don't have the builds available at this point in the game to be fully effective with it ... I could kind of make it half way with Reyan, but not without gimping him fairly significantly in the process I think. Haven't laid any groundwork for a build change on that scale, so will have to wait until next age to test properly.