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Post by Easar Nossredna on Jul 31, 2012 8:06:34 GMT -6
Hi everyone.
I need to get all these little small ideas of game improvements out of my head before i forget them. So here I will post all ideas I can think of at the moment, and add more as they come to me. Comments are appreciated.
Some of these suggestions might have been suggested before.
So. Here we go.
- A tab to show all your estates and where they are located (I sometimes forget)
- A limit of available steps pr. day (24 hour). Would be cool if you just couldnt race from Tear to Fal Dara in 30 seconds. I mean.. its a pretty dang long journey. Right now its to easy to scout the entire map for a horde and then get all you characters to jump halfway across the world to defeat it. I think it would be cool and interesting if you could just move two steps f.example in an hour. 48 steps total in one day. Maybe a bit more.
- Seanchan? Travel across the sea? Could be cool to expand the map a little bit. Right now the fighting is so concentrated around a few cities at a time, might give the smaller clans a chance to control some cities. Also limit the times you could travel across the sea.. Like maybe only once every 5 days? I mean, its a loong journey.
- Take some elements from the board game Risk. Clan bonuses based on which cities you control? Would be cool if you got some bonuses controlling all of the borderland? Or all of "Randland", all of Seanchan(if that is implemented). Etc. Make zones that gives you a bonus to control.
- Better clan chat. Its so messy. I liked the way it was in the early versions, though the limit of ten messages showing was a bit of a bore.
- Vassal clans. Maybe after a clan battle the losers would become vassals to the winners? Or/and possibility to offer vassalage to smaller clans. The vassal clans ji are automaticly added to the ruling clan(the vassal clan has no choice in supporting), though the ruling clan may give them(support them in) a town to rule in cases where they have freely become vassals. The ruling clan can either free them from vassalage, or the vassal clan must fight for freedom like in a new clan battle.
- Infiltrator (new profession). Will also require a new clan upgrade to block against infiltrators/lessen the chance of a succesfull infiltration. An infiltrator may steal from the clan, change support, declare wars on allies, destroy town upgrades in clans ruling towns etc.
- Raiding other peoples estates. Small % chance of stealing things from peoples estates vault, or degrading the estate (losing an upgrade).
-Possibility to sell your estate.
- Will add more suggestion as they come to me. All of these suggestions are mostly to make the game more vast and entertaining.
- BTW: Did I mention I love what you've done with the game, Tim!!! ;D ;D ;D
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Post by Stilgar on Aug 1, 2012 14:15:01 GMT -6
- A limit of available steps pr. day (24 hour). Would be cool if you just couldnt race from Tear to Fal Dara in 30 seconds. I mean.. its a pretty dang long journey. Right now its to easy to scout the entire map for a horde and then get all you characters to jump halfway across the world to defeat it. I think it would be cool and interesting if you could just move two steps f.example in an hour. 48 steps total in one day. Maybe a bit more. System can be improved, but it's very complicated. No two-steps-per-hour are acceptable - that will drive away all people that have real lives. There should be something connected to Traveling, at least for higher levels channelers and whom they help. - Seanchan? Travel across the sea? Could be cool to expand the map a little bit. Right now the fighting is so concentrated around a few cities at a time, might give the smaller clans a chance to control some cities. Also limit the times you could travel across the sea.. Like maybe only once every 5 days? I mean, its a loong journey. We saw a Sheanchan only once. Snow and nothing more. Why do we need it? If there will be cities from a list wot.wikia.com/wiki/Seanchan#Towns.2FCities.2FRegions they will be just unknown to us. I play this game only because there are Rhuidean, Emond's Field etc., places I lived half of my life in (I play no other MMORPG and mostly no games at all). - Vassal clans. Maybe after a clan battle the losers would become vassals to the winners? Or/and possibility to offer vassalage to smaller clans. The vassal clans ji are automaticly added to the ruling clan(the vassal clan has no choice in supporting), though the ruling clan may give them(support them in) a town to rule in cases where they have freely become vassals. The ruling clan can either free them from vassalage, or the vassal clan must fight for freedom like in a new clan battle. Only slavery can be involuntary. There is no slavery in Randland. - Infiltrator (new profession). Will also require a new clan upgrade to block against infiltrators/lessen the chance of a succesfull infiltration. An infiltrator may steal from the clan, change support, declare wars on allies, destroy town upgrades in clans ruling towns etc. Red Alert? Sounds interesting. - Raiding other peoples estates. Small % chance of stealing things from peoples estates vault, or degrading the estate (losing an upgrade). +1 -Possibility to sell your estate. +1
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Post by Easar Nossredna on Aug 1, 2012 16:34:51 GMT -6
System can be improved, but it's very complicated. No two-steps-per-hour are acceptable - that will drive away all people that have real lives. There should be something connected to Traveling, at least for higher levels channelers and whom they help. Well maybe 2 steps pr. hour was a bit aggressive, but I really think there should be some limit to how much you can jump around on the map in mere seconds. But you're right that it cant be to low so that it drives away people, but it should be enough so that you would savour those steps enough to make the limit worth it. We saw a Sheanchan only once. Snow and nothing more. Why do we need it? If there will be cities from a list wot.wikia.com/wiki/Seanchan#Towns.2FCities.2FRegions they will be just unknown to us. I play this game only because there are Rhuidean, Emond's Field etc., places I lived half of my life in (I play no other MMORPG and mostly no games at all). Maybe we could include more towns then on the current map? Shol Arbela, Fal Moran, Baerlon, Whitebridge, Four Kings, Aringill, Elmora, Mayene, Grodan, Salidar, Jehannah, Katar. New areas: Jangai pass, Dragonmount, Mountains of Dhoom, The Drowned Lands, Garens Wall, Darkwood, Toman Head, Dairlon Hills.. etc. Though I personally like the idea of adding a new continent vs. the above.
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Post by Stilgar on Aug 3, 2012 4:05:42 GMT -6
Well maybe 2 steps pr. hour was a bit aggressive, but I really think there should be some limit to how much you can jump around on the map in mere seconds. But you're right that it cant be to low so that it drives away people, but it should be enough so that you would savour those steps enough to make the limit worth it. Generally I agree with you, there should be a limit for non-Travelers, as this just more realistic. But nothing should be "per hour". It will make GoS a game for programmers and people with much free time. I'd prefer one step per day: most realistic and least time consuming. Maybe we could include more towns then on the current map? Shol Arbela, Fal Moran, Baerlon, Whitebridge, Four Kings, Aringill, Elmora, Mayene, Grodan, Salidar, Jehannah, Katar. New areas: Jangai pass, Dragonmount, Mountains of Dhoom, The Drowned Lands, Garens Wall, Darkwood, Toman Head, Dairlon Hills.. etc. There are groups of places: 0) Shol Arbela, Fal Moran, Elmora, Mayene, Grodan, Katar, Garens Wall, Darkwood, Dairlon Hills - have we ever saw them? But I agree for them as a second priority to be added; 1) Baerlon, Whitebridge, Four Kings, Aringill, Salidar, Jehannah - minor, but with development of the game and differences in importance between towns I would want to see them; 2) Jangai pass - IMHO it's the right name for a Spine of the World. You can't climb the last one; 3) Dragonmount - you can't climb it too; is there something interesting at it's foot? 4) Toman Head - would be good, but 4-way traveling will be broken perhaps (that's fine, I hate it); Though I personally like the idea of adding a new continent vs. the above. I don't have much against other continent if it won't affect this one much. I'll just ignore it as heroes do it.
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Post by Tim on Aug 4, 2012 19:59:06 GMT -6
In response to adding new towns, I'm going to steal a response for an old thread with a similar suggestion: While that may seem like a simple enough suggestion, I'm going have to say "No", while thinking "AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHH!!!! KILL IT!!!!! KILL IT WITH FIREEEE!!!!!!!!!!!!". Having 18 cities works out awesome. Disrupting that balance would take a TON of work. Here's why: - There are 10 different equipment types that can be bought from the shops in cities. Cloaks are different in that there are only 6 and they all cost the same. So there are 9 other types. What items can be sold and each shop is evenly distributed with 2 cities able to sell the best of each item type, 2 cities not able to sell any of the item type, and 2 cities at each of various levels in between for each item. Adding more Cities I'd either have to disrupt this balance, add more item types, or keep the cities as a multiple of 9 (9*2=18).
- There are 12 of each kind of consumable item. Each city has 12 consumable items for sale by default (4 of each type). Each consumable item is available in 6 cities (6*12=72=18*4). Based on the stats that are effected by the consumable (or how much stamina it adds for food), I've ordered the consumables based on the strength of their effect and split each consumable type into 4 tiers. Consumables that effect more 'powerful' stats (Speed, Wound, Stun) are in the top tier, while the 'weaker' stats (Damage %, Defense %, Health Gain) are in the lowest tier. Each city has 1 consumable of each type from each tier, and doesn't have 2 consumables that add to the same stat (ie: no drink and herb that add to Taint). Adding more cities would mean I either have to disrupt this balance, add more consumables of each type, or figure out a common multiple of the number of cities we have and the number of consumables and completely rework the division of consumables.
- There 6 cities each that you can open mining, farming and shipping businesses in (6*3=18). Adding new cities I'd either have to disrupt this balance, add an equal number of cities that have each business type, or add a new business type with 6 cities than can build that business.
- Each city has lots of unique aspects. 2 unique upgrades (with unique bonuses), unique names of shops, etc. These would need to be figured for each new cities.
- There are 6 different type of wilderness areas with 3 wilderness areas of each type (3*6=18). Adding more wilderness areas, I'd have to either add an equal number for each type of wilderness area, or add new types of wilderness areas with 3 of each.
- There are 4 connections between each location. No 2 areas (Cities or Wilderness) share more than 2 connections in common with any other. For example, Rhuidean and Fal Dara are both connected to the Spine of the World and Tarwin's Gap, but they don't share any other connection. Being able to do this is not specific to the 18 cities (in theory, I could probably do this with almost any number of cities higher), but figuring out logical connections while keeping this balance is a huge pain. This is why some connections don't seem to make much sense (Stedding Shangtai on the Sea of Storms?) and others that seem like they should be there aren't (Cairhien not connected to Kinslayer's Dagger). Took me literally days to get the right balance figured out last time...
- Each wilderness area has a unique spread of NPCs to battle, with some more powerful than others. They is supposed to be an even spread of the 6 NPC types (so each type is just as common as others), but this is kinda broken right now since it's coded to have different NPCs for darkfriends and non-darkfriends, but that's not being used right now. It's on my list to fix though, but will take some work and thought.
- Then there's Ed's work. Adding new cities means Ed would have to make a new Flag and background for each city, create new shopkeeps for each city, and remaking the nifty flash map that shows all the locations and their connections. Not to mention images he would have to make if I added more items to keep the balance in some of the above points.
I'm sure I'm forgetting something else, but I think you get the point. So while I'd love to add more cities, it's a balancing nightmare that balloons into enough work to take up 1/3 to 1/2 the work I'd get done in one version. PS: Sorry for babbling on so long, but wanted to explain the complications.
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Post by Easar Nossredna on Aug 5, 2012 11:55:17 GMT -6
Well, not much point discussing that point further then really Maybe a few of the other suggestions isent as time consuming/hard to implement.
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Post by Edvar al'Given on Aug 5, 2012 12:59:08 GMT -6
Don't hate me too much Tim, but after reading through these comments, I believe I have found a way to make everyone happy with minimal work for us. What if we did make an extended map, including Seanchan. Perhaps we could even tie it into the proposed Endgames, only allowing access once Endgame starts, in the form of an attack from Seanchan? Anyways, you're wondering, how are we going to do it without confusing things too much? Simple, we add exactly 6 new cities. I would suggest Seandar(Court of the Nine Moons), Imfaral(Towers of Midnight), Tremalking(Great Sa'angreal), Thakan'dar(Shayol Ghul), Shon Kifar(Damane Pens and Seanchans main docks- wot.wikia.com/wiki/Shon_Kifar ) and maybe Noren M'shar(basically southernmost Seanchan city and another major port- wot.wikia.com/wiki/Noren_M%27Shar ). As for the lands between, there would be one of each land type. For Mountains, I already made a Mountain of Dhoom image, but another good one is the Ijaz Mountains, which are known for excellent kaf beans . For Seas, theres the Dead Sea, next to our blight, just north of Bandar Eben, and theres the Morenal Ocean, between Seanchan and Shara. For Hills, the Kaensada Hills( wot.wikia.com/wiki/Kaensada_Hills ) might be a good choice. For Wastelands, I can think of none more fitting than the Blight itself, but the Lesser Blight in Seanchan could also make a case. Plains and Forests are tough though, as I can find no record of them in Seanchan. Perhaps we could ask Brandon Sanderson lol. The only suggestions I have are Toman Head and Paerish Swar. Connecting them may be difficult, but perhaps we can make a few exceptions. What if Tremalking and Seanchan were only available by Ship, from coastal cities. It would be an option on the Town page, not an option with the other connections. And Thakan'dar could only be accessed through Tarwins Gap maybe. They could interconnect with themselves through the 6 new terrains. If not, I'm sure I can work out new connections. Reworking the Flash Map would be complicated no matter what, but given time, it could be done. Regardless, if we had to do it the hard way, 6 is the only number of new cities that would work. As for equipment, what if we made 2 more weapons and two more armors. That would give us 12 total of each, a number more consistent with your other patterns. This might even be a great time to introduce a new weapon focus. The main thing for the equipment, herbs and businesses would be that the 6 new cities and wildernesses would be a bit independent of the other 18. You could easily distribute things evenly if you only had to worry about those 6, using any new material in those stores. There would be 2 of the new cities each that had a type of business. Landmarks, if the cities are already exceptions, we would only need 1. I named likely ones in parenthesis next to the names of my suggested cities. I think something like this would be a great addition to the game. Perhaps we could even take the opportunity to introduce new nationalities. I would be willing to work out all the details if we were going to do something like this. And I also don't see it happening in V10. V11 or 12 maybe.
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Post by Baldur Nordal on Aug 5, 2012 13:41:49 GMT -6
Expanding the Map: I don't really think it's necessary to expand as long as a new Age comes along about when things are starting to get full/stale etc. Having said that - I think there is an easier solution if you really wanted to do it. Just basically duplicate the whole environment. You could use portal stones and switch to a slightly different version of the world - perhaps use some of the ancient names for the cities (I'd have to go dig up that scene with the maps where the Ogier were making notes for Rand). But no new work figuring out new items and tweaking the delicate balances etc. Or you could make a play on T'A'R (though you'd need to rename chat . Players (late in the game?) could develop the ability to dream and 'switch over' to T'A'R by sleeping (though it wouldn't really fit the books very well if you could do physical stuff there). You'd be on thin ice plot-wise, but you could do some interesting interactions between a place in the real world and it's mirror in T'A'R. *shrug* -bn
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Post by Easar Nossredna on Aug 7, 2012 14:06:06 GMT -6
Well, lets leave it to Tim and Edvar to figure out what to do
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Post by Edvar al'Given on Aug 7, 2012 22:50:14 GMT -6
It's Tims decision. My assistance is at his disposal.
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