Uncle Cid
Youngling
Heart of Winter
Posts: 68
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Post by Uncle Cid on Nov 8, 2011 13:01:34 GMT -6
I do see a way that would avoid costing Ji for multiple changes, though - an extra player database field that tracks Ji earned since the last "Join" event. You join a clan, fight for a couple weeks, and that counter tallies the Ji you've earned since joining. (Your normal ranked Ji total would still count all of this Ji as well - Ji wouldn't be split among different counters.) If/when you leave the clan, then that since-Join number would be the basis for any adjustments/penalties - without affecting your personal Ji total. When you "Join" a new clan, that counter field would be reset, so if you join, hang out and chat for an hour, and leave, without running any turns and earning any Ji, then the counter would be empty and nothing would be lost. One piece where the whole clan Ji loss concept gets hairy, though, is that clans don't have a single Ji counter, they have a Ji counter in every town. Tracking Ji earned per player per town would be complicated as hell. What if, upon leaving a clan, that Ji-earned-in-this-clan count is compared to the clan's world Ji total to come up with the percentage of the clan's overall pts the player generated, then that could be used to globally subtract from all 18 town totals. Not a straight deduct, but say that player had earned 20% of the clan's overall Ji total, then that percentage could be halved (quartered, etc - whatever's deemed appropriate) and applied to all town counts, so the clan would loose 10% Ji in every town. thats my idea exactly, just in better words =P
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Post by Tim on Nov 8, 2011 17:02:28 GMT -6
almordre hit the nail on the head as to why I haven't tracked Ji at the individual level before now, and it's why I'm still hesitant: Tracking Ji of each individual player in each town will be a nightmare.
As it is now, I store each clan's Ji in the database for each town. With the way support works now, I already have to do some calculations to determine which clan has the highest Ji total every time I need to know who is the ruler of a town or how much Ji a clan has with support.
If we break it down further to where some or all Ji is stored at the player level, that means every time someone goes to the town page, I'd have to query ALL players for their Ji totals, figure out what clan they are currently in and how much Ji to add to their clan, then add in support. Would be a lot of extra calculations and would start to seriously eat up bandwidth like the heroes page used to.
There are some database ways around it (store the Ji from clan members in the Clan's database entry as well and update it whenever any member's Ji changes), but the more I think about it, the more concerned I am about moving that route...
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Post by Tim on Nov 8, 2011 23:20:07 GMT -6
Ok. So I completely missed the part of Kev's post about taking a percentage from all towns based on the total percent of that clan's Ji that was earned. That wouldn't be to hard to code or manage in the database. Would be pretty easy actually.
However, I do see a flaw. What happens when I join a clan (we'll say SL) and run all my battle in and around Fal Dara (an area the SL usually has pretty well under control). I just join for a few days, so I only rack up a small percent of their total. We'll say 5% (ok, 5% could be kinda big, but just go with it). Then I leave. While I strengthened their hold on Fal Dara, I would have just cut 5% of their Ji in all of their other towns that I never contributed to...
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Uncle Cid
Youngling
Heart of Winter
Posts: 68
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Post by Uncle Cid on Nov 8, 2011 23:58:32 GMT -6
how about taking ji from only the towns that the ji was earned for?
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Post by almordre on Nov 9, 2011 8:36:20 GMT -6
I think that gets right back into the insanely-complicated tracking I was trying to offer a way around, Cid.
Yeah, I had considered that aspect, Tim, but wasn't sure how much of a factor it would be. Personally, I would think that would come down to a decision by the clan leaders - do we want to try bringing in a mercenary, and will their help in one town be worth the overall hit? (actually, <groan> Elayne has that same dilemma with her use of mercs in Caemlyn - it got her what she wanted, but hurt her standing with the people to some degree). (Another angle: someone comes into the clan, runs a bit, decides they're not happy there and leaves - maybe leaders should have tried harder to make them happy there, or if things didn't work out, it's worth it to let them move on anyway)
Overall, though, a one-day or one-turn-dump run would still have minimal effect on things - say a 200-turn burnout on NPCs, you'd have earned a max of 800 Ji. Assuming early-game, say a world-wide clan score of 10000 Ji and the base numbers from above, that'd be an 8% contribution, so a 4% penalty. 40 Ji penalty for a town with a 1000 Ji score.
I think that the net gain would still be for the benefit of the clan, and if necessary the actual numbers used for the penalties could be tweaked up or down to balance things. But, I /think/ that the standing/stable clan members' total Ji generation would keep the run-n-gun numbers to a minimal percentage in an even halfway active clan.
Anyone who actually clan-hops wanna chime in on what scenarios they would go work temporarily for another clan in - how long, etc? I can imagine a couple possibilities, but I don't really clan-hop, so I could be way off on those...
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Uncle Cid
Youngling
Heart of Winter
Posts: 68
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Post by Uncle Cid on Nov 9, 2011 9:15:34 GMT -6
Well being that i played my characters in woe, sl, wt, bt i have a bit of exp in clan hopping =D
For a merc the main questions are where my money. In this gamer though, a better question would be: was it worth it? If a merc system was implemented, the bennies and the cons need to be enough on both sides to be considered purposeful.
right now if you magically find one of my many many supper special awesome hidden alts, its for spying purposes. what is my enemy doing, and will i be able to counter it in any way possible.
As a merc alt, i would go from small clan to small clan providing town capturing or clan battle support. these two are currently the most relevant scenarios for clan hopping. next to my favorite: spying
What do you think about having extra ji gained after joining a new clan for a short period. that shouldnt be too hard to code. and to balance it, you would only get the initial ji jump say the first time you join a clan...for a set period of time or a one time boost? need to be level 20 before being able to get the boost?
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Post by Hugh Longshanks on Nov 10, 2011 9:12:40 GMT -6
almordre, I definitely agree with you above. I think there should be externalities related to hiring mercenaries - like losing overall support for your clan in exchange for a critical gain in one area. So, in that context, I think the ramifications of the ji system we're talking about would actually be a good thing.
Cid, I could see implementing a Ji boost simply for getting involved with a clan - but don't we already have that as an achievement? Or do you think it's especially important for it to be a boost on your ji gained from fighting, etc, instead of a simple payment?
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Uncle Cid
Youngling
Heart of Winter
Posts: 68
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Post by Uncle Cid on Nov 10, 2011 11:08:37 GMT -6
ji boost for the town/clan. first and foremost at least
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Post by Hugh Longshanks on Nov 10, 2011 12:26:04 GMT -6
Ah, gotcha.
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