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Post by Hugh Longshanks on Oct 20, 2011 9:19:21 GMT -6
I actually have a relatively high health-gain set-up right now (at least 20, sometimes closing on twice that) and it's been very useful.
I would definitely support changing the wound, especially, from random to a sliding value. As a shield-fighter, myself, I really need something to slow my opponent down, consistently, since I can't have ridiculously high damage.
I don't know that poison-nerfing is necessary. It's hard to get that much poison and still have much of anything else left over.
Fearless, I love that idea! Unfortunately, I fear it would be incredibly difficult to balance. We'd need a LOT of testing for it, I think.
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Post by Tim on Oct 20, 2011 10:46:39 GMT -6
Well, with it being a random value between 0 and your skill, the higher your skill the more likely you are to have get some taint/poison/wound/stun.
If you have a taint ot 1, you have a 50% chance of dealing taint a turn. At 2, you have a 66% chance of dealing at least 1 taint. 75% at 3. 90% at 9. 95% at 20, etc. I have no worries about this change for taint and poison, as on average you'll still be dealing about same amount of poison and taint per battle. It'll just be more constant instead of so random.
Stun and Wound get a bit of a boost, as they were 50% chance to hit AND a random spread. But they weren't effectively countering speed anyways.
If I tilt the scales so that the higher your taint skill the more likely you are to have a higher taint hit per turn, I think taint and poison would become way too powerful. I don't think poison and taint are underpowered now, as I've seen them used effectively against most builds. Their biggest downfall right now is that they eat up a lot of your points to use in high volume, so when they don't hit at all you're kinda screwed. If I make them so they hit consistantly at high levels, they'd be too uber I think.
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Post by Tim on Oct 20, 2011 10:49:26 GMT -6
Poison is a lot cheaper than it used to be. I've seen a couple high level players with poison in the 80's this version. Last version I think I remember someone getting it up above 100. That was quite effective. Almost enough that I considered nerfing it this version, but I decided to let it be for now.
Glad health gain is at least someone effective. Think it still needs a boost though, as it's pretty worthless at low levels I think.
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Post by Hugh Longshanks on Oct 20, 2011 11:51:50 GMT -6
Agreed, Tim. Until I got past level 40 health gain did essentially nothing for me. A simple tweak to the calculation should do it.
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Post by fearless on Oct 23, 2011 17:14:36 GMT -6
"If you have a taint ot 1, you have a 50% chance of dealing taint a turn. At 2, you have a 66% chance of dealing at least 1 taint. 75% at 3. 90% at 9. 95% at 20, etc. I have no worries about this change for taint and poison, as on average you'll still be dealing about same amount of poison and taint per battle. It'll just be more constant instead of so random."
i do not understand this.......
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Post by fearless on Oct 23, 2011 17:18:05 GMT -6
is this the current set-up or a proposed future system... ?
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Post by Tim on Oct 23, 2011 19:16:39 GMT -6
That's the setup I proposed changing to. What if I changed how randomness worked. What if instead taint,poison,speed, and wound having a 50% chance to hit, each turn they would do a random amount between 0 and whatever your stat is. I think that would smooth these skills out a bit. So if you had taint of 3 you would do either 0,1,2 or 3 taint to your opponent each turn. That way you almost always hit them for something from these skills, but having a ridiculously high poison/taint skill doesn't completely dominate when you get have high stats. Wound still wouldn't be stackable, meaning if you Wound your opponent for 5 the first hit, any time you would Wound them for less than 5 that battle would still have no effect. Would be too crippling otherwise. Might also make poison so it only effects the opponents damage% OR defense%. Not both. Not sure which one yet. Both makes it too powerful when you have ~50+ poison.
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Post by Hugh Longshanks on Oct 24, 2011 12:53:12 GMT -6
Tim, I think that would work just about perfectly. It would of course need some testing - but I'd be happy to do that myself.
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Post by Tim on Oct 24, 2011 14:47:15 GMT -6
Think I might tweak the damage dealing formula for next version as well so that the bonus for how critical your hit is gets applied at the same time as the % damage bonus, instead of after. Should reduce the insane amounts of damage people are dealing a bit.
Let's say you have 100 damage, +50% damage, and score a critical hit. As the formula stands you would deal 263 damage (100*1.5=150)*1.75 = 262.5 (round).
My thought is to change it to: 100*(.5+1.75) = 225 damage.
I still keep it so a critical miss still caused you to do 0 damage, even if you have a higher +% damage skil though.
Thoughts?
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Post by almordre on Oct 24, 2011 22:14:53 GMT -6
Honestly, the biggest problem I have running an archer is dealing /enough/ damage to compete. I'm not sure I like the idea of nerfing overall damage even the slightest...
As far as health gain - it operates as a percentage, so the higher-lvl the players are, the more pronounced it becomes. And, I can say from /extensive/ experience on the other side of health gain, it has become a very effective defensive ability - it routinely turns what would otherwise be a 3-hit kill into a prolonged battle that can turn easily to either side.
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Post by Hugh Longshanks on Oct 25, 2011 8:17:24 GMT -6
What alMordre said. I don't think the problem is damage itself. Even the existence of a very effective speed/damage combo isn't the problem. The issue is that no one has found an effective way of countering said combination. I've been experimenting with Wound a lot lately, but frankly it's less than effective most of the time. The other problem that hadn't occurred to me before is the simple fact that overall speed determines who hits first. Regardless of how high my Wound is, if my opponent gets the first hit in and is able to double or triple attack me before I get one hit in it doesn't matter how much I slow him down - I'm still half-dead before I've even begun to fight back (or worse). I will find a way around this, but it's going to take a while. Assuming I cannot find a balance of Dodge/Wound/Stun, etc. to both avoid my opponent through the first barrage and then slow him down enough that I can hack through his defenses, I think there is really only one option short of completely re-working the battle system: shielding.
By shielding, I mean a pre-emptive block system. Essentially, it would vastly cut down the amount of damage able to be done the first attack of a battle, and I think it would be an effective way of creating a counter to the speed/damage berserkers. I don't know how practicable this would be (and I certainly don't expect it any time soon, even if it is possible/necessary, but if anybody thinks it might be a good way of dealing with the situation, I'd be happy to come up with/explain a method of doing it.
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Post by Tim on Oct 26, 2011 8:33:46 GMT -6
Well, the reason I was thinking of reducing the damage a bit is so defense can compete a bit more, but if you guys think it's fine I'll leave it this way.
As for health gain, I mainly just want to figure out a way to make it not so worthless at low levels. Glad to hear it's effective at high levels, but right now I think classes that have a lot of health gain bonuses are at a disadvantage early on.
Good point on speed, Hugh. Hard to counter something that stops you from getting a hit in... What if I changed it so Wound hits a player when they are attacking instead of defending? So a high speed player may go first, but could get wounded on their first turn. Would also have to tweak how wound works a bit to make it more effective, as their speed bonuses that give them multiple hits first turn would already be applied. Need to give it some more thought I guess.
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Post by Hugh Longshanks on Dec 19, 2011 11:28:42 GMT -6
Definitely a good idea, Tim. Wound is incredibly under-powered. The only real way to use it effectively is between two characters who are already the same speed. Using a wound-bearing slow character (or even moderately fast one), it is nearly impossible to even catch up to one ofthe super-speeders.
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Uncle Cid
Youngling
Heart of Winter
Posts: 68
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Post by Uncle Cid on Dec 19, 2011 12:05:36 GMT -6
ive found that pure defence builds are excellent against npcs, but have literally no effectiveness against other players. my brother noticed this too.
is there one universal equation for damage with the specialties added on like status effects, or are there multiple equations for multiple builds?
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